This week Marina engages with the remarkable Heather Castellano, a dedicated mother of four and a savvy entrepreneur passionate about empowering female business owners. In this insightful episode, they delve into the unique challenges and solutions for managing personal and business finances, work-life integration, and the journey towards financial independence. Heather, with her expertise in bookkeeping and financial coaching, shares valuable tips from mastering pivot tables in Google Sheets to effective routines that align with family life. Discover how to redefine success, embrace a supportive financial team, and foster honest communication about money matters. Whether you're an entrepreneur seeking flexibility or someone looking to enhance financial literacy, this episode offers inspiration and tangible advice, encapsulated by the warmth of two mothers navigating the intricate balance of work and family. Don't miss out on their personal stories of growth, practical financial strategies, and the lively rapid-fire segment revealing Heather's personal favorites. Subscribe to Work Like A Mother so you never miss an episode and join our community by signing up for our email list, covering everything from motherhood to money management!

Mentioned in this episode:

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Heather Castellano

https://herhandscreate.com/

IG: @herhandscreate

Marina Tolentino

https://www.marinatolentino.com/

IG: @marinattolentino_

YT: https://www.youtube.com/@marinatolentino

Newsletter: https://marinatolentino.myflodesk.com/worklikeamother

Transcript:

Hey, guys. On this episode of the work like a mother podcast, I have a dear friend and kind of a new acquaintance, but we actually kind of know each other, but then didn't. So it's a funny relationship. But her name is Heather, and we actually met a couple years ago through the wine economic Development Council, which is a mouthful, but it's a nonprofit located in the wine eye coast that helps small businesses get off the ground. And we had a mutual friend. She came into the circle and I was like, wait, I follow you on Instagram. And she did the same thing. And so this is a fun conversation to bring us full circle.

We've actually crossed paths a couple of times since then. But Heather is an awesome helper for all the entrepreneurs who really need help with their finances. So she offers bookkeeping services, she offers coaching programs for people to really wrap in their numbers and get confident about it, specifically for female entrepreneurs. And then in addition, she's got four kids. So a van full, I'm going to list their ages. So 17 years old, 15 year old kid, 13 year old, and a nine year old going to three different schools, which is, I mean, the hustle, the morning hustle, which we're going to talk about a little bit. But really, the point of this episode today is to give you the confidence to take control of your finances, not only personally, but also for your business. And then a little bit of encouragement with family stuff and how she juggles it all.

So welcome to the show, Heather.

Thank you so much for having me. This is going to be so fun.

Yeah, no, like I said, so we totally were following each other online, and now we're face to face, so it's fun to come full circle. But you mentioned on your website, kind of this theory of the garden in the greenhouse. So can you explain what that means for your business?

Yeah, so with background, I have background in personal finance education. And then coming into the business finance space, I realized that there's such a symbiotic relationship between the two. And I also love analogies. I find that when you're guiding people, just using the typical industry verbiage can be really confusing, almost. Maybe not demeaning is the word, but you sound like the expert in the room. But I really wanted to bring myself in a way that I could be understood. Because if they can understand what I'm talking about, then what's the point? So the garden is our personal life. It's what we nurture day in and day out.

And when you start a business, it's kind of like, you're taking resources from the garden to create this greenhouse, and we'll go to the greenhouse, spend a lot of time there, nurture that, and if we're not careful, we can spend so much energy on that that we don't take resources back home to the garden to make sure that that's the space that's really being nurtured. Because if you also think about a business and your personal finance, if things don't work out in your business, you could theoretically walk away from it, go back to a w two job, and that would be a victory either way. But can you walk away from your garden? Absolutely not. You can't walk away from my hubby, my kids. That is the most important and probably one of the reasons why I created the greenhouse. So, yeah, that's what that analogy and illustration is.

I've got a beautiful imagery in my head now of like, oh, wait, and then you have to harvest the seeds from the greenhouse to replant your garden.

Exactly.

It total is a symbiotic relationship that's so good. And both need daily watering, daily tending. You got to prune, like, all the things. So good. Okay, so you started this business officially in 2020. Talk to me about the season of life you're in and why you made the transition. Because I did the same thing in the same period, but I think for a little bit different reasons. Walk me through that.

Yeah. I did not think I was going to be an entrepreneur. A lot of people I've listened to podcasts are like, I always knew I was an entrepreneur in high school. I was selling lehimi gummy bears at school, but that wasn't me. I was the student wanting a's, follow the rules, stay in the box. And then I became a mom, left corporate to be at home, to be present in that way. And I think entrepreneurship actually found me as a way for Heather to continue to be Heather in addition to being a mom and a wife. So I started playing around with more creative things.

I grew up sewing, so started there. And then when the kids got into school age, I was like, okay, I have time. Go for a job, taught personal finances. But then my first w two going back was probably with our church and kids ministry. And even then they were so wonderful, flexible. I could bring the kids with me to work, but I had to be there on Tuesday from nine to four. I had to be there on Saturday and Sunday. And so when Covid hit everybody's home, everyone's on devices trying to get educated, I was like, lord, I need a pivot.

I don't think I'm employable. I need to be able to change where I'm at day to day. And I heard bookkeeping, and as I shared with you, I feel like personal finances and business finances are super similar. If you strip off all of that industry verbiage, that can cause it to be confusing and just started to take little steps of just maybe trust and obedience in what I heard and just keep going with that.

Yes. Booking me is a service that everybody needs. And we are just too proud to admit. I think our ego is also, like, trying to hide all the disorganization. We're like, no one can see behind my underwear drawer. Right. So you're one of those that I think is so personable, and you do a great job of getting those barriers down to really, truly help women where they're at. So it's so, so good.

So I wanted to talk back to the four kids and their schedule. So you've got teenagers and then the nine year old. What is your weekly schedule at the moment? Kind of walk me through your morning routine that you shared with me before the show. What does that look like today?

Well, Google calendar. I need Google calendar. Morning routine. I get up about 5:30 kids get up at 5:45. We're out of the house by 6:15. Hubby's amazing. He puts the lunches together, does the breakfast burrito in the morning, and then we get into traffic from Wahiawa to Kaimuki, drop off one in Kalihi, continue on, and then when we get to school, park my car, have about 20 minutes of reset time for myself. My kids continue to sleep in the car.

Beautiful.

And from there, it depends. Sometimes I'll head to a coffee shop, sometimes I'll head to gather coworking and do my day there, or come to Eva beach to spend time with you. And then when it's time to pick them up, just head back, pick up kids, head home, back in traffic. And right now it's a little bit different. Kids are now starting activities, so every week there's a kind of schedule, but not so hard.

Are you picking them up like at two or 03:00 or like at the end of the day, five or six.

When there's no sports? I'm picking them up at like the 2:45/3:00. Yeah.

So we're talking like four or 5 hours max of productive time a day, you would say. And then are you one of those that works late at night after kids go to bed? Or you're like, no, we're done.

We fit everything in that day before I would. And with technology nowadays, I find that's even hard because with my boys being older, they want to decompress. And so they'll go in their rooms, get on their phones, and then I see them on their phones, and I'm like, okay, well, they're doing their thing. Let me go just jump on my computer. But then I'm like, maybe the messaging is actually coming from me. That because they see mom on her computer, she's busy. It's not family time. So I can go on my phone and decompress.

It's like, who started first, the chicken or the egg? And so now I'm just kind of trusting the time and going, if I can't get it done during the day, then that's me. That's my time management, because I really need to honor that space with my family because it is so fleeting. Like, it feels like just yesterday they were babies, and now I have one almost graduating next year.

Don't let me. I know I'm not ready, but I think it's such a good reminder, too. And this is something that high productive moms really have locked in is the power of those few hours. Like, I used to call it, nap time warrior. You just get as much done as you can in those two or 3 hours, and then the rest, you have to be flexible. There are the off time where I might have a 06:00 p.m. Zoom meeting, and then, sure, the kids are on a zoom, but then right back to it. No screens off.

Mom's done. We're having dinner, and we're sitting at the table. Yes. And so I think as long as we're flexible and our kids get that you're setting the right example, that we're not just, like, working nonstop 24/7 there are set times for work time and screen time and all of that. Yeah. I mean, that's a packed schedule with the commute. You've got a lot going on. And I know I'm probably going to have a season of that in our life, too, again in the future.

But for now, I'm enjoying the slowness that we have.

Yes, enjoy the slowness.

And you do the team tag with your husband, so there's no other way.

You could do this.

You have to have that help. And then you have in laws close by, too. You mentioned you lean on them.

That's great. Yeah.

Because I think otherwise we'd just be crazy people. We all need our help.

Yeah, I think I'm like, my mom always says she only had two and I have four. But even watching my mom, I wonder now what were those sacrifices that I didn't notice she had to make? And actually, she just told me a story. I passed Farney realty on cam highway. That place has been there since I was a kid. They used to have a pizza place with the best chocolate chip cookies. And I was like, I remember mom taking a real estate course. And then I asked her about it, and she's like, yeah, I took the test. I missed it by two points, and I never went back and redid it.

And so that's why I'm like, I get to. In this season of my life, even though I have the four kids, I get to be everywhere. And so because my mom wanted to be so present for me as well, despite being a single, full time working mom, I'm like, what real estate guru could she have been if she went back and taken that test? But she doesn't speak of those things in a regretful way, so I guess it's on for me. It's like, I'm going to take that stand on her shoulders and just do my best with what she started with me with.

Sure. Absolutely. And that's so crazy. So most people fail on their first time, actually, like, I would say over 50% I failed, and it took me twice. And it's always, like, the state portion that throws you for a loop because it's wine history, and they talk about wine vocabulary versus, like, I don't know, the great Mahali, like, whatever. You just fail these things. But no, she should have taken it again. Oh, my gosh.

But in another world, right? Who would have known? Okay, so let's kind of roll into finance stuff a little bit more and how you help females. So what's, like, some common mistakes and maybe even myths that you see people coming to you with, like, they approach you, Heather, I need help. Save my life. What are the things that are going on with them?

I would say on the higher level, psychological, emotional part, it's the shame, self shaming I'm supposed to know, and then the practical is overcomplicating it. And, yeah, I want to go back to that. I'm supposed to know because I think that probably is the tip that trickles to everything we're not taught in school, how to, one manage our personal finances. And then even in entrepreneurship classes. I don't know exactly what's taught in the realm of bookkeeping, but tactical, I would say girls get a separate checking account for your business. Like, if you have not done that and you take anything away from today, it's start there.

Yes, absolutely. Just going back to that. There is no formal education when it comes to managing your business, finances or your personal. You really have to go out and get it on your own. So then you're prey to whatever Google gives you, right. You're searching, how do I do this? Or you get lucky enough. Like, I married a man who is very financially savvy, and he has taught me, but it's taken. I mean, we've been married.

I should know this, like 10-11 years. It's been a journey. Whereas first five years I fought him, I was so stubborn. I thought I knew my way was best and his way wasn't. And just being the visionary, I also didn't want to look at it at all. I was totally negligent to organizing it. And so then tax season would come and it would be this huge explosion. But he was right all along.

And there are simple financial principles that once you understand them, it kind of unlocks the next level of, okay, now we know the basics. Let's get a little bit more strategic. But the shame is absolutely real. The pride is real. The ego is real. All of it just gets layered on. And then before we know it, we haven't paid our taxes in two years, or we're living month to month on paychecks or on credit card debt, and there's just those basics. And so I think you do a really great job of just like, it's okay.

Come here. Like, I'm your sister. Let's help each other out. Absolutely. For someone who's not money minded, how do you take someone through that where they're frazzled and fearful to clear about their goals? How do you get them to take that step to not just interested, but let's commit? What has to happen in that woman's mind.

I think she, one needs to see her future self as herself. I read some statistic that a lot of times we have a hard time thinking about retirement, the future. I'm 41, so my 60 year old self, like, really looking at her as a real person. I even do this imagery. If I were to think about my mom being that person, how would I want to prepare for her? What would I want to have set up? Because you have to want it to be able to make the changes. The shame part. I have what's called your money story. So everyone, right when we're born, we don't choose our parents, and also we don't choose our money story.

You're born into a money story that has existed, like, and you talked about in your seasons from probably the 1920s, every generation before that has contributed to your money story and finding out where they're at now. What does their money story look like? Because then from there, you can start to notice maybe the patterns or triggers that you have in response to money. And I'm seeing it even in my kids. Not necessarily triggers, but you can be raised in the same house, and one be a saver, one be a spender. And so when they start managing their own money, how are they going to respond? What are what I call the value exchanges that they have? So just like a personal trainer, it's like, I can't expect somebody to run 3 miles today if they haven't even gone walking for 20 minutes. And, yeah, I think it starts there, really creating a safe space to understand what is your money story? What do you want for yourself? Even saying the word goal sometimes? What are your financial goals? Some people just have been in survival mode for so long, they cannot even think about a goal. They're just like, I just want it to be better, and I don't know what that looks like. So in those situations, kind of painting them a picture just by asking questions.

So, yeah, I love it because you get to spend time with people, and then there's that space to have compassion and empathy in the way that people have had that for me, in so.

Many ways, that's awesome and so beautiful. And when you're saying that, I think of just the journey that I've been on personally is I've had to spend so much time in books and podcasts and really discovering what my money story is, like you said. So I come from a family of savers. Like, she, Dave Ramsay envelopes it literally. That's my mom. She lives in a really inexpensive area, so she's like, $100 a week is my budget for groceries. And I'm like, that's one pit stop for taco night. But coming from that, I started life as a young adult thinking that everything was expensive, thinking that I couldn't afford anything even if I did.

But then, as going through my twenty s and now in my 30s, there's this relationship with money. Not that it's its own entity or a person or anything. Like someone might put a label on it.

It's a tool.

Once we realize it's a tool, there's so much freedom in that and realizing you do have control and you don't have to be reactive. You can be absolutely proactive. And I think that's a big thing that you help handhold women through, is like, let's kind of allocate this. Not like spending it before you get it, but identifying where it's going to go before it comes into your bank account is huge. So I encourage anyone who hasn't yet start your money story, spent some time in self reflection and just getting honest with yourself. And then it's scary to look more than five years in the future if we think about it, because sometimes it's not what we want to see, especially if we continue on the track that we're on today. Are you actually going to move the needle or are you going to be living the same lifestyle? Right. Or even worse, potentially.

And so when we get really clear with that, that's one thing that we've hired a financial planner to help us with, is to say, hey, in the year 2060, what do we want our bank account to look like? What does our lifestyle look like? How much are we spending every month in this lifestyle? And it really starts to get real. And then you reverse engineer it, and it's very humbling if you're behind, but then it lights that fire under your butt to get super specific and to set those specific goals, too. So I'm sure you've got great connections to it. People need recommendations, but it's building this roundtable of nights, right? Kind of is what I always talk about with business. You need one of these. You need one of those, one of those. And it's not just one person fixes it all. You need this whole group of advisors.

So you're absolutely critical to that.

Yeah.

So good. Okay, so let's talk about when someone is considering getting you to help them, or another bookkeeper, for example. What are some expectations you have on them so they can be prepared to hire this person?

I love that question. Somebody asked me this recently, and I was like, I'm sorry, I don't have space right now. But so many times, whether we walk into a bank, whether we walk into a doctor's office, we view these people as the experts, and we somehow stop to trust ourselves. So, first and foremost, and especially in Hawaii culture, we're very taught to be humble. And so to expect and to ask and to think somebody is working for me is hard. And so with a bookkeeper, I would say, first and foremost, what is the norm is this person should be categorizing your stuff monthly, producing reports for you monthly. Hopefully they'll do your GE tax for you. So you don't have to worry about that and available to answer questions.

If I've heard so many times where it's like, yeah, I haven't gotten a report my PNL from them, or I don't know how to get my PNL from my quickbooks, that's where it's like, you're not demanding. You're just saying, hey, this is what I hired you for. So I would say even in the interview, it's what I just said, ask them, do you do this, this and this? Because if you don't know what's happening in your business, if you can't look at your profit and loss for last month, how are you going to make wise decisions for your business in the next month and the next quarter? So that is a bare minimum. There's advisory services that are included. Not every bookkeeper, I would say, is able to do that. And I love what you said earlier about your night. Oh, my gosh. Roundtable of nights.

Yes, that. What is a CPA? What is a tax repair? What is a bookkeeper? So another analogy, all of those mamas out there who had a baby, you were in labor. The doctor showed up just at that moment that the baby came out. So I say that's kind of like your CPA, your tax preparer. You see them once, maybe twice a year to just have a strategy chat or produce your numbers. Your bookkeeper is like the nurse where they're really hand holding you throughout the whole year. The process. Yes.

And know I can give you the data. Interpreting the data again, that's more like your CPA and tax preparer and financial advisor. I even want to speak to that, too. They have capabilities in terms of their technology that they can forecast that far ahead. There's so many apps out there, mint, Google sheets. There was another one. But even as a financial educator myself, I only can take myself so far. And so having a financial planner, especially if you're trying to build wealth and a legacy, is worth the investment and the time.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And it's baby steps. It's not to say you have to hire all these people in the same month.

No. Yes.

What season are you in again? Right. If we're in the baby season, we're learning, we're getting essentials and building blocks. We're growing up as we go. Yeah, absolutely. Talk to me about your weekly or monthly finance routine you have for yourself, like personally and for business. Do you do, like a weekly routine or monthly routine?

What does that look like? On the business monthly routine, I'm making sure my own quickbooks is up to date, making sure I'm paying my GE taxes. Even for me, there's thresholds in GE taxes, but doing it in your monthly routine, I think, is very wise, rather than semiannual or quarterly, because then that's cash that you have to save up for. On my personal side, that one, it's maybe once a month. But what I pay the most attention to is what we call our variable expenses. That's the eating out, the groceries, the entertainment. Because for most of us, we've analyzed our fixed expenses over and over, and most of them, you can't flex. Your variable is what can make or break your goals, and we do it in a weekly amount. So, actually, just this past week, my husband and I decided, let's go back to cash.

Because there's something about cash where when you see it leaving your hand, you're like, oh, okay, I felt that $20. But when we swipe, it's like there's no emotion.

Exactly.

So having kind of a set amount that you try, and sometimes it's just pick an amount, start there, and assess, and then use that to reflect on what are the patterns that you notice in your spending. Are you always eating out on Wednesday nights? And so you have to start kind of planning for that. So weekly variable spending is probably the number one major.

Yeah, I mean, just as you're saying that, I'm thinking, I don't even carry cash most days. I just have my little attachment to my phone. So literally, we're doing my third grader's math book, and he is doing coin math, and I'm like, I haven't seen a coin in a long time. So he doesn't even know them because he wasn't doing it. And now everything's linked to Apple Pay and double click to pay, and you don't even swipe anymore. You just hit a button.

It's so crazy.

Absolutely. That'd be a huge just mindset shift to be like, let's go back to an envelope just for one week, just to experiment.

Yes.

That would be awesome. No. So good. And do you guys do, like, a meeting with your husband? Like, together? You're going over this? And how long does it take?

That's a hard one. I do emphasize what I call the money date, whether it's monthly or weekly. And that can be a really stressful situation. It can create hard conversations. So creating an environment with a candle, with each other's favorite beverage, a snack, and having an intention for that. Like, what are we trying to talk about? Because you don't want to talk about all the things. Do we do it? No, not as regularly as I want to. But I think it starts with just being able to, being comfortable with talking to each other about money.

I think Mike and I have gotten to that place where we are comfortable. It's what specifically do we need to address? And it's so know, a lot of times it comes back to the weekly variable. When you make more money, you can spend more money. And if you're not aware, it's like that saying where if somebody looked at how your money was spent that month, whether it's school tuition or Costco or coffee, you can see your values in how you spent your money. So anytime Mike and I are blessed with more, it's the conversation about how do we divert it? Because we know we can definitely live on less. We've done the peanut butter jelly and the green nature Valley granola bars every day for lunch in a season, and it's become one of my slogans. Can you do canned tuna on the daily so that you can ‘opihi on the special?

Ooh, I love that. That's a good one.

Because a lot of people think I deserve to Ophi. I deserve to have. I work hard. It's like. But again, back to your 60 year old self. Are you making sure that during the monotonous times of the week, you are cantuna ing tuna and cracker? It's the best with a little bit shracha on top, can tuna. So that you can ophi in the future. Because if you don't, then you may be forced to canned tuna in your 60s because you had all the ‘opihi experiences when you were younger.

Yeah.

And it's just flexing that self discipline muscle. You're not going to get anywhere unless it's a little bit hard, but not too strenuous, just enough to be like, oh, this is uncomfortable. We're going to do it because we see the goal. Yeah. And so that's one thing I always try to do when we have our money talks, too, is like, instead of thinking and nickel diming. And he said, she said, or like, keeping score, this is the goal. Remember, I wanted to go to Disneyland. So we need to put aside $300 this month in this bucket instead of like, what did you spend $500 on target? Well, I already put the bucket away so we can spend over here.

Just remember perspective. But it's a very sensitive and emotional, fragile conversation every week. It just is, for some reason. But remembering you're on the same team, too, is also a huge part of it.

Exactly. And I've seen so many of those conversations where it's like, he bought the fishing pole. Well, you bought the Louis bag. But reminding each other, like, we're on the same team and it's not who bought what. It's like, where were the resources supposed to be allocated? So that, so that's another kind of model, is we don't say, well, we can't. Right. I can't afford it. It's like, well, how can we? And if I do this, then we can do that.

The cost and the benefit kind of analysis. Yes.

So good. Okay, so it is tax season as we're filming this, it's February. Like, our taxes are due by March 1 for our CPA. What's some advice you have for entrepreneurs or any tips or hacks or anything that you've gone through, like, tell me some beans.

Don't try to fit in the tax person's box. You are the business owner. You know the heartbeat of your business. You know how to interpret the numbers better than your tax person does. Your tax person's primary responsibility is taking what you have and then putting it into the format that the IRS wants. So don't get too caught up in organizing it for your tax person according to the tax categories. Just be able to let them know, this is for this. This is for this.

Even software. Sometimes I see entrepreneurs wanting to like, oh, my God, I got to get organized. I haven't done anything. Let me sign up for quickbooks, and I'm just going to dump everything in there. And then you find this learning curve and you get overwhelmed, because quickbooks can be overwhelming. Something as simple as download your bank transactions again back to, if you have a separate account, download your bank transactions. Do a quick categorization and pivot tables. If you have not heard about pivot tables, they're amazing.

A pivot table can take your bank download and create a profit and loss by just doing a pivot table.

What is the pivot table?

Oh, my God. The pivot table is this magical. So imagine your bank downloads, everybody. Imagine your bank download right now, right? You got your date, your vendor amounts. So in your Google sheets, you can have the date become just a month. So every January transaction has a one. Then you have another column where you put your categories. And again, don't be like supplies and materials.

Are you going to know what supplies and materials means? If not put fabric or put ingredients, then you just copy paste your categories by vendor, sort it by vendor, and then at the top, put your cursor, put your cell in a one, put it there, insert pivot table. And the pivot table can take.

It's like a drop down menu thing. Like it is. Drop down pivot table.

Insert pivot table. And it's going to ask you if you want to do it in a new sheet. So a new tab in your Google sheet will open. And ideally you want to put category in the row and then amount in the value. And I actually have a mini, speaking of, I have a mini diy course on how to do this catch up. And then it sums all of the things by category for you. And you just give that to your tax repair and like, here's all my totals. And you can do that for your revenue.

Every deposit, you just put income or revenue, pivot table totals it. It's the most magical thing.

Just save people hours and hours and hours. And now we're all going to have fun in Google sheets. Google sheets is one of those things in excel that I never had cared for. And so Ryan's my guru and I'm like, figure out. And he knows all the shortcuts and stuff, but that's a huge one. I've never even heard of that word or how to give it table. Okay, awesome. Because I always recommend, especially for someone who's just starting, you might not need quickbooks yet.

If you don't have that many transactions, less than 30 a month, just do it manually. In a spreadsheet. Yes. And then absolutely, you can just filter the categories by a to z and all that stuff, and it just makes it so much easier. I did that for all our businesses for the first, like one to two years until we hit like one hundred k, and then you kind of pivot over. Yeah, absolutely. That's a great one. Okay, wrapping this up a little bit, tell me about your definition of success.

I'm sure it's changed over the years, but as of 2024, what does success look like for you?

It's definitely changed. You had said in your, I think it was your seasons podcast that in our twenty s and our 30s, we want to achieve and just hustle and achieve. And in my 40s, I'm probably more clear on what is important to me. And hearing people say, cultivate design life on your terms or whatnot, it's like, I know I have a responsibility to serve with my gifts and talents in what I was given, but seeing that my 17 year old is 17. It gets emotional.

Yeah.

I always used to joke with my husband, I'm like, we have to do all the things now. We have to go to Disney World. We have to go to Japan before he graduates because he could meet the love of his life at 18 and no longer be mine. Yeah. And my daughter already being nine, none of it matters if it's not for them, and I don't get to spend more time with them. And also, I can't lose myself in being a mother, because when they're all gone, it's going to be me and Mike staring at each other across the kitchen table. And I think, again, that word balance, I believe, is a fallacy. It doesn't exist.

I think I put in my self care, like giving my big giant sons who are taller than me now, a hug and a kiss, something as simple as that, snuggling with them, telling them that I'm proud of them. It's so hard. And I have moms who are older than me, and, like Heather, it's going to get harder. I was like, what? And when they were little, when they were toddlers, I thought that was really hard. And this is a different hard. And so the mom guilt, kick it to the curb. You're doing the best that you can. And when you start to think, I shoulda, woulda, coulda.

My therapist taught me hindsight bias. Don't scold 30 year old Heather because she didn't know she really was doing her best. Yeah.

So it's not even about the business at all. It's literally relationships. Is your success right now just showing up and being present and giving them that extra love?

Yes. Because I didn't answer that question. Yes. Community. Community to my babies and my husband, and even community to the people that are around me, whether it's the moms at sports or the women entrepreneurs, it's being able to create a safe space for people to just be themselves. That success. Yeah.

And you do such a great job at that.

So thank you.

Well, wrapping it up. I mean, you have some things going on this year for people to join. And so tell me about group coaching in 2024. What does that look like? How do they get involved? What are you going to offer?

Online courses are like, the buzzword right now. And I've thought about it, but Heather is not Heather to a computer. And so group education workshops, whether it's for a specific business that wants to provide it for their agents in a brokerage or nonprofit, I am Kanaka. And so, really helping Kanaka with their mindset and understanding that we have to learn how to play in this western strategy to elevate ourselves as a people. And so, yeah, I love being in person. I love doing this face to face. I get to move my body around instead of sitting in front of a computer and educating, because I think that's my sweet spot with personal and business finances and bringing that to people to, again, simply, again, create that safe space so everybody can drop their shame at the door, realize that they're not alone. And there's so many people probably just like them going through the same thing, but nobody's talking about it because no one talks about money.

And we're all human and we're all messing up, and it's all just a game.

Yeah. No one has arrived in this money. I mean, even. Maybe even Warren Buffett, Donald Trump, whoever that we look up to as gurus in the wealth building strategy, they probably are struggling through their own things, too.

Levels. New devils. Absolutely.

Levels.

I love that. Yeah. So good. Okay, well, every episode we do a fun rapid fire at the end. So what's your Starbucks order?

So the cheap order is. Yeah, double shot. It's the iced dopio ice. Two pumps of white mocha and a splash of whatever milk. Right now, I'm in the macnut milk world, and so that's the cheapest. But if I'm feeling hot, I just go straight for a tall, blonde roast. Okay. Yeah.

Good. What do you make for dinner?

If it's last minute, there's always ground turkey in my freezer. So either be curry ground turkey, curry chili.

Yeah, you just, like, dump it in a pot and go.

Or Jonah's favorite is tuna, rice and nodi. That's another. Yeah. Canned tuna, rice, Korean Nodi.

Awesome. Okay, what's your favorite? Go to department of target.

Oh, gosh. Earth and hand.

Oh, yeah.

Uh huh. Just home stuff. It's a great place to window shop because I do value having that beautiful, cozy home, as I know you are an expert in this with home staging. And I've realized that having homes like this sometimes creates an unrealistic expectation for my kids. So I'll go to hearthenhan and those home areas and dream and be like, oh, that's cute. And then I leave without too much stuff in my cart.

You have good discipline. Yeah. I need to go shopping with you.

Or I go to goodwill and find those things.

Exactly. No, you can get inspiration and then go to savers or goodwill and be. Ooh, I can replicate this. Absolutely.

Yeah.

Okay. Name a book or a podcast you'd recommend to the audience and why.

Right now I'm on Mel Robbins, and I hadn't actually listened to her. A sweet friend. I kind of gave it to the girls one day in the sales mastermind. I'm like, guys, why can't you sell your product? You spend all this time, you're taking time away from your babies, your husband, yourself, and then you're not going to sell it when it's time to sell. And she was like, wow, you're like our own resident Mel Robbins. And I was like, okay, I know who that is. So I received that. So I'm like, I've never really actually listened to her podcast, and so I think it's pretty amazing.

I'm starting to wonder if I have add based on her podcast, the squirrel moments. But, yeah, right now it's Mel Robbins.

Okay, awesome. No, she's super inspirational and just good. She has so many good sound bites. I feel like, of just advice. Absolutely. TikTok or Instagram?

Instagram.

Okay. And where can listeners find you online? What's your Instagram handle?

Her hands create. Yeah. And then I also started your garden and greenhouse, where that's going to house more of the financial tips and tricks her hands create. I don't know what it's going to evolve into, but, yeah, I've decided to separate the two.

Yeah, no, so good. And we'll make sure to have all the links in the show notes and everything so people can find you online and reach out via dms. It's going to be so good and funny that you said you have to sell yourself. Absolutely. And I even suck at this. So for everyone listening and watching online, we are building an email list specifically for the podcast now. So if you're interested to get more behind the scenes, it's going to be a little bit more personal. We're going to talk farm life.

We're going to talk homeschool. We're going to talk business, too. But I think just a little bit more about me and the things that I have going on separate from my real estate email. So that's going to be in the link below to sign up, too. Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you, my love.

That's a good one. And I really think that people will take a lot from this one.

Thank you so much for having me.

All right, that's a wrap.

Thank you.