Tune in to 'Work Like A Mother' Episode #9 as Marina warmly welcomes Chelsea Abril, a destination wedding photographer turned certified master coach. This empowering episode dives into Chelsea's journey from capturing moments to transforming lives. From struggling with self-doubt to embracing her coaching calling, Chelsea shares her transition and the tools that helped her redefine success. Uncover the nuances of coaching vs. mentoring, learn how to find a coach who resonates with your values, and get inspired to set your own pace in an era of hustle culture. Chelsea's insights on the generational shift in entrepreneurship, her personal growth, and her quest for balance and fulfillment make this a must-listen for anyone looking to navigate their professional path with authenticity and resilience. Whether you're a millennial or Gen Z, join Marina and Chelsea for a thought-provoking conversation filled with actionable advice, and discover the mantra for a values-driven life. Stream now and take the first step towards redefining what hustle means to you.

Mentioned in this Episode:

A Court of Thorns and Roses (ACOTAR) - Sarah J. Maas

Manifestation Babe Podcast

Chelsea Abril

https://www.chelseaabril.com

IG: @chelseaabril

TikTok: @chelseaabril

Marina Tolentino

https://www.marinatolentino.com/

IG: @marinattolentino_

YT: https://www.youtube.com/@marinatolentino

Subscribe to my newsletter for more behind-the-scenes and encouragement from me! https://marinatolentino.myflodesk.com/worklikeamother

Transcript:

All right. Today I have the one and only.

Miss Chelsea Abril, who is a dear friend. We've known each other for, gosh, long time. Like, I want to say, 2016 was when we first met, and it was through the wedding. But this woman is fabulous in all ways. And she has since transformed from not only a wedding photographer, but also to a coach now. And she helps business owners all across the nation, which is really cool. And she's personally helped me, I mean, really through the pandemic when I was going through a lot of things, when I was going from three to four businesses and then starting real estate and the whole thing. And we were crazy people and really just helped provide perspective and tangible takeaways to make the needle move and just really good.

I think in taking me from the panic and the overwhelm that I was in to being like, hold on, you are all these things that you don't think you are, but you really are. So I'm excited to dive into the episode. Chelsea, thanks for being here.

Oh, my God. That's, like, the most beautiful edification and intro. Thank you. I feel like I can say all of that right back at you. And I'm so grateful to be here. 2024, I swear, is the year of having a community and being surrounded by Liddy titty women who are doing it, who are making big moves and taking up big space in the world. So I love you. Thank you for letting me be on here.

I'm going to say something that's so hilarious. My last name is pronounced Abril.

Oh, thanks.

So I put that in an email and I was like, I don't really care, but I feel like Marina will just die if I don't tell her. Yes.

Thank you. I've been saying it wrong this whole time.

It's never bothered me. I'm like, I feel like she'll be like, why didn't you tell me? And so anyway, I'm telling you now. Doesn't matter, but amazing. Great, Chelsea.

Oh, and I forgot to mention our husbands were coasties. We also have that in common.

Yes, I forgot about that.

Yeah. But now Seattle and is hybrid or you do in person stuff too, right? You do, like, your booty stuff.

Yes. So I would say even now, the bulk of my expansion and diversification, my business happened at the end of 2019, and so I built it almost entirely, virtually. And now occasionally, I'm loathe to go back to being and hosting in person things like, it's so much more accessible and easy virtually. And I can then speak to people across the nation and wherever on different time zones. I do some of the booty and my flow classes in person, which I do love and I do have in person retreats for a lot of my private one to one clients. So we go off and we spend a weekend together once or twice a year. We do all their big building dreams goals. We do booty classes there, too.

So I would say, like 98% of my offer suite is all virtual. And then all of my photography, obviously is in person.

Yes, absolutely. And you travel quite a bit, which is fun to watch. And you're just a gem to watch on social media. I feel like you do a good job of being authentically you, no matter what other people think, you're just like, you really niche down to who it is you are and who you want to be online. And I think it's the same person in real person. So you do a great job with that. All the things purple all the time.

We feel it purple everywhere. Very on Brad. Yes. Yeah.

But I wanted to kind of dive into this world of coaching. So I feel like since pretty much when you started, even before it got more and more popular and everyone was doing courses and all this, it's still a thing. It's like part of the brand journey. Right. Is like, okay, mastered a thing, now we got to teach it, now we coach it.

Yeah.

How did you get into that? And you don't just coach photographers, you coach everyone. So talk to me about that.

So I feel like the transition happens. We've both been in the wedding photography game for ages. I feel like we had not necessarily peaked, but we'd gotten to enough of success. Like, oh, yeah, I know what I'm doing and I can answer questions. I could teach someone this in my sleep. It's just information that I know. And so towards in 2019, I started to be asked. I was getting more dms, people were asking more things.

I never felt like I was ready to do it. And I was also in a different education group where that evolution wasn't particularly fostered that we should all go off and do it on our own, but we should keep learning. So I learned a lot in that community, but it didn't really foster that. Oh, yeah, you can do it, too. Sort of mentality. So I didn't for a while. I just kind of answer things here and there. I spoke on a stage in January of 2020, and that was like, okay, I know my shit.

I really do, and am ready to do this. And so I started offering mentorship. I did my first round of coaching, I think I had, like, six people, and it was like 300 or $500 for a month or something, and I didn't know what I was doing, but I was like, let's do it and ask me all the questions. It's a lot of fun. Like, fuck it, let's go. And then the pandemic happened immediately. Once all those contracts were signed, the pandemic immediately happened. They were all wedding photographers who wanted to basically hire me for mentorship, not as much for coaching.

And it was a really interesting, like, oh, shit. So I let most of those clients go. Some of them stayed with me just to kind of roll with the punches. I was very living on the positive cloud when that all went down. And so we rode that for as long as we could. And then I realized halfway through, I was like, I actually don't know what I'm doing. I had my own crisis. I think a lot of us had our own little crisis mid 2020.

And that's when I hired my first coach. And I had never really thought of coaching as anything but mentorship. I didn't know that coaching was different from mentorship. I didn't know consulting was different from coaching or mentorship. And so getting my first coach, I was like, holy tits. This is amazing. I'm not a licensed therapist, but it's adjacent to being a business therapist. Like, all right, so let's talk to the entrepreneur.

You and what do you want? And being a coach means asking good questions and not necessarily coming in and saving your business or anything, but letting you save it. So guiding you to your own right answers and asking the questions that get you to what you're really trying to get through on your own. So it's really nice having that. And I had that, and I was like, wait. This is actually what I want to do. I want to help people with their mindset. I want to help us brown girlies. I want to know that we can all do it.

And I didn't have those kind of mentors when I was growing up, so they all kind of coalesced into this idea I ended up doing. I got chosen for this really exclusive apprenticeship, and I did a 14 month apprenticeship specifically to become a master coach. So I'm certified in a bunch of different modalities now. And I was like, yes, this is the thing. And it's so expansive, and I think you and I can vibe on that, too, is I loved photography, but I was getting bored, and it was, like, affecting my creativity and my craft. And I was just like, do I just keep doing it? Like, you raise your prices and do more, and then you raise your prices and do less, and is that just what we do? I'm bored. I don't know if I want to do this forever, but I still love it, but I have to do something else or I'm going to burn it down. I'm a kid with matches.

I've got to have something else to do. So being able to diversify and add that in and getting so much fulfillment from it. I don't remember what your original question was, but that was kind of my transition. It began as a mentorship. It felt like a natural course, like the natural course of action. Oh, you graduate from high school and you go to college, and that was kind of like, you master your craft and then you teach other people about your craft, and it's really just expanded in a fun and different way that I don't think I anticipated. I didn't know that I would be doing this. It felt like something that other people did.

I never quite believed that I could be a person who did it. I didn't have a ton of self confidence in general. I had social media confidence, but not, like, actually embodied confidence.

No one could tell the difference.

Amazing. I see. And I'm like, it's a great lie. I'm going to keep it up forever. And then I was like, I can't. I'm freaking out. So I love it. Thank you.

From the outside looking in, and now I feel more of that embodied common. I was like, no, I know what I'm doing. I know that I do an incredible job, and it's so cool to be able to do it in this way. And speaking to what you were saying about, oh, there's coaches everywhere, and I had that scarcity mindset going into it, and that's why I didn't do it for such a long time. I was like, well, who's going to want to learn from me? Like, whatever. I shake my boobies around and I'm kind of fun, and I've got fun energy, but do I actually know what I'm talking about? I don't know. I don't know. And getting over that was like, okay, well, people.

There are some people who want to learn from this. Purple haired, had pink hair back then, purple haired girl who shakes her boobies and dances around and is fun. And there's some people who would rather melon ball their eyes out than learn from someone like that. But, like, okay, I can speak to those people who want to be with someone who's magnetic and confident on whatever it is that people think that I am. So I can speak to those people, and I can just mind my fucking business and stay in my lane and keep doing the thing. Whether it's social media confidence or the real deep, embodied confidence, I can do that. And so it took a minute to come back to that. And we've talked about this a little bit separately, but even though I had all these years of experience of building a business and managing clients and showing up online, the moment I just painted entrepreneurship a different color, I was like, I don't know what I'm doing.

I've never done this before. This is total. Oh, my God. I have no feet to stand on. Like, no one's going to. Whatever. I had this whole crisis, and I'm like, okay, I just painted it a different color. It's the same car.

It's just a little bit different.

I realized that because that is life. I'm literally going through it with this podcast. I'm like, yeah, I don't know how to talk to a camera, like, blah. And you're just like, you totally mind f yourself to think that you don't know what you're doing, but we really do, and it's really going to be okay. Even if it's not, it's still going to be okay. But I think that's such a good reminder is like, you can be at the top of your career, you can be doing really cool ass shit and still think that you're not enough or you don't know what you're doing. Like that impostor syndrome. How do you.

I would love nothing more than to just say, you know what? If you work through it enough, it just goes away, and you can check it off your list. I would love nothing more than to make that promise, but that's just not the way it works. There's so many different ways you can approach it and ways you can adjust your thinking and work with your subconscious mind and all these different things. But that was, I think, the lie that was sold to me, and I don't even know if it was sold to me or I made it up and I signed my name on it, but I was like, oh, I should be able to just check this off my list, right? I'll work on it. I'll focus on it for a while, and I'll get my gold star, and it should be over. I can move on. Imagine my surprise when it came back six months later and came back in force when I painted entrepreneurship purple instead of pink. And I think that's a good thing to just remember.

I work with a lot of people like you who are already really successful, who are, like, top of their game, like, big names in their industries, and who paint entrepreneurship a different color, want to diversify, are multipassionate, and want, like, I want to capitalize on that. I want to live a really creative, fulfilling life. And then all these things that they stopped working through were. Didn't need to work through anymore on this side. Now come over to the other side, and they're like, what the hell is happening? I hear that so much. I thought I was done with this. I don't know why I'm still thinking about. I don't know why this is still a problem.

And I'm like, oh, my goodness. Okay, we got lots to talk about. Yeah. And there's so much to unpack there and weave it all back in together. Also, I feel like there will be so much bleeping in this episode. So, listeners, thank you for no bleeping. However this gets chopped up, you are you. We're not trying to change you.

It's good.

But one of the things you mentioned was just the difference between coaching, mentoring. What was the other thing? Consulting. Can you walk us through that again? Because I think the average business owner doesn't know the difference between the two. Or they're just like, oh, another person telling me what to do. What is the difference?

They'll pay me and they'll answer my questions. Great. Or vice versa. Right. That was one of the most profound things for me to learn because I was just like, oh, coming from a service provider background as a photographer, I have this service, and you pay me for it. And I can call myself a picture ninja, but I'm still just a service provider. And you pay me and you get the deliverable. So how I learned it is coaching is questions, and a good coach asks great questions, and a coach will come in, and it is kind of like that business therapist adjacent, where it's not us coming to tell you how to live your life, it's us guiding you through your own thoughts.

And so many people that I work with are really overwhelmed because there's so much going on in their head. There's thoughts and ideas and worries and ambitions and goals. There's so much noise that a really good coach can come in and ask the right questions so that slowly, gently, we start to peel them away and organize them. And then the fog clears. That's the magic of a great coach is asking the right questions to get you to your own right answer. Whereas a mentor, if I wanted to come and learn real estate, I would hire you as a mentor because you've obviously nailed it as a real estate mogul in Hawaii. So you would teach me. And if anyone's hiring a mentor, they are teaching you what they have done.

They are teaching from experience. So a mentor will teach exactly what they did and what they know from their experience versus now a consultant. This is where mentorship and consulting get a little mixed up. Consulting is. Teaching is coming in and saying, here's what we're doing. It's like a strategist. A strategist and a consultant are, in my mind, kind of the same thing. Here's what we're doing.

I've looked at what you're doing. I've looked at what you have. I looked at where you're at. You want to get from point a to point b. Great. Here's how you would do it, whether it's based on their own experience or not. So a consultant can come in and use their consulting brain to give the same deliverable and experience to a coach or a real estate company or a used car dealership. The consulting has said, here's what you do.

Here's the game plan. Go. They can speak on things that they maybe don't have personal experience with, but they're applying the general principles for the roadmap. That was amazing to me. I was like, and then people get all in their heads if they're transitioning to this economy is, well, am I a coach? Am I a mentor? Am I a consultant? Oh, my God. I don't know, what do I call myself? And I would say maybe less people ask themselves that and more just assume that they are the one thing. And I would say that some of the best people that I've worked with end up kind of wearing a lot of the different hats. So what I love to see is a lot of strategists are like, okay, we're going to do this.

We're going to roadmap you. And then there's coaches or people who are just doing mindset like, okay, let's dream. Let's have a vision. And what I know from my experience and the hill that I will die on and why I coach the way that I do is because vision is amazing, but it only goes so far if you don't have action. And action is great, but it'll eventually rubber bend you back if you don't have any vision or alignment. So finding where all these things intersect, which I know you know, deep in your body, it's nice to see them all put together. And a lot of people do a really good job at that. And some people are better just wearing the one hat.

Good thing to consider, and this wasn't.

Even one of my interview questions for you, but if someone is interviewing coaches, what do they need to ask? How do they basically sort through the hundred that are pitching them? We discover online? How do they find true alignment with the coach? What are they looking for?

One thing that there's a couple of different parts to that is one, what I've noticed for me is that a lot of people don't actually know what they're looking for and that can be where it's really overwhelming to find someone. So I would say rarely are you searching, like business coach near me, you're not usually searching for coaches the same way you might search for a photographer or a real estate agent. A lot of what I found, and this is how all of my businesses have kind of run, is my referrals are all very relational, so I kind of expand that way. And so it's built on a lot of trust because a lot of times, especially really good coaches aren't $4. We're usually in the hundreds to thousands dollars per month, and it's a higher investment that requires a little bit of trust and a little bit of knowing that. So I'm a big fan. Rarely do I find someone totally cold turkey who wants to go book my highest package and they're like, okay, well, who are you? What is she about? So my business really does operate on vibes and that's kind of the way that I like to vet people myself. It's the way a lot of my clients vet me is going through.

Like, let's go watch their videos, let's go look at testimonials, let's go look at client proof and let's see if their values align with mine. I had a great conversation the other day with someone who teaches messaging and it was like, okay, you need to know what your values are to see if their values are the same and vice versa. So as even hiring or bringing on a client as a coach, I also need to make sure that those values align with mine. There has to be some compatibility in the middle and usually they're pretty glaring as soon as they're like, oh, I see that we're going to have to manage this expectation or just like, let me check in because this is this and that is that. But going through and checking the vibe, ideally, and I'll speak for myself because I know a lot of people run their businesses very differently. I work very closely with my clients. I want to have a deep, connected relationship with them. They're trusting me with their money.

They're trusting me with a lot of their private things. Like, a lot of high achievers are hiring a coach like me because there's a lot of private things that you don't necessarily want to know, like, oh, let me just go ask Instagram and see what they think about this crisis that I'm having. And also, it's potentially, this is somewhat of a living belief, but it can be unsafe to go and ask the general public or even other entrepreneur groups like, hey, I have this big, innovative idea. There's an NDA in the way that I coach, and so I'm not going to go like, oh, good idea, and steal it. That's a very much a limiting mindset. But there's so much safety in being able to have a dedicated coach. My coach calls herself a trusted mentor and I love that, which is a nice thing. Yeah.

So you want to be with someone you can trust who's going to mentor you, who has your best interests in mind? Are they teaching with the kind of modalities that you believe in? If you have no interest in any of the woo woo stuff, go find someone who's maybe more pragmatic. If you were like, I'm kind of interested, but I want to make sure I'm grounded. And not often la la land find someone who's grounded, who razzle dazzles you a little bit, but maybe doesn't take you off into the woods. There's so many different kinds. There's no wrong way for people to be doing this. And it's really interesting to just vet, and I would say this, too, and I hate to say this, but hiring mentors and coaches is also kind of a trial and error. We're all in a marketing age and a lot of us can market really well. And I've had some bad experiences with people that I was like, oh, for, this is going to be amazing.

This is going to be the best thing ever. So part of that is like managing your expectations, also knowing that it's an equal partnership. So just as much as I am willing to coach someone, you also have to be willing to do what we've talked about and do what we've asked. If you are upset that you haven't gotten the result, have you taken all the steps, have you followed through in the way that we talked about? So there's some of those agreements and things that go into it, too. And sometimes coaching is not for everybody. The type of coaching that I do is like, okay, we've got to be ready to go. I don't want to just take your money and have you spinning your wheels. That's not fun for anybody.

I want to make sure that, yeah, it doesn't have to be, like, huge, life changing adjustments either. Not everyone's trying to sprint and not everyone's trying to walk. And so together with a good coach, you can find the right relationship. So it's a lot about just checking the vibe, my consultative vibe check. And I think that's really important. And I work with people who are woo woo adjacent, usually. And so we're learning how to trust our gut. We're learning how to follow our intuition.

If someone gives you an ick, probably trust that you got an ick. Why are you getting this ick and where is it from? Okay. A lot of those check ins there. So check the vibe. Trust the vibe. And then go consume their content and imagine, like, oh, would I like to be, oh, actually, oh, my God. She took the words right out of my mouth again, a lot of this is good marketing, but trust your gut. Go do free consults.

Go check in with people. Not everyone does consults. So go talk in their dms, go get some of their free resources or buy something that's low ticket and see if it's delivered the way that you like. So I think there's a lot of trial and error in it, and it is your hard earned money, your beautiful money. Invest. Yeah, it's a big investment. It's like, no joke. I spend thousands of dollars on my coach every month, and I'm like, I wouldn't spend this normally.

This is also a new paradigm at all to be investing thousands of dollars in my trusted mentor. But I'm like, I also can't imagine not having her. Yeah, so great.

This is just capacity, but it's only want to grow. Don't hire anybody if you're not trying to grow. Number one, be willing comfortable. I think that's one thing you are really good at, is like, you would push me to a comfortable uncomfortable.

Because.

You could also see the potential in me. I think that was a big part of it, is like, you knew I was capable of things. You knew I had this vision. I was absolutely willing to do it. I was just scared and in my head and everybody anytime we have a new idea, we're like, oh, what's ever good me here, blah, blah, blah. But so much of it is the accountability. And so I am like the world's worst procrastinator, and I would do things the night before our calls or with my other.

I were so attracted to each other.

But it got done. Shit got done, and then eventually moved the needle. So I think when I was first coaching with you, we were just launching YouTube, right? I think that's what it was.

Oh, my God. And look at you now. I know.

And then we fast forward here, work together again for a second. And it's always at these pivotal turning moments where I totally question my whole existence. And I'm like, hello, back to my center. But it's because I haven't changed as a person. Like, my core views haven't changed, but get off this track. Going down hustle culture's influence and everyone else telling me I need to do all these things, and you're like, no.

So let's talk about my. Wait a second. Whoa. Come back. I'll be like, 20 minutes of listen to all these great ideas, Chelsea.

And you're like.

Let'S check in with our values.

Talk to me about your experience with hustle culture. So you came through the same era. I went through 2010 20. It was the girl boss era. Tell me about your experience and then how you kind of got to where you are today with work life balance. What does that look like for you? Like, fill me in.

I feel like I was living on the sun. I just moved there, and I was, like, frying at all hours of the day. Lived on the sun. I moved there and then. So what's even funny with that is I felt really burnt out. But I was also, like, put it in me. Give me the iv. Like, let's work hard.

Who needs to sleep? I think I booked, like, 60 weddings one year, and I was like, on what fucking planet? But I was like, that was the year I made my first multiple six figures. And I was like, oh, my God, girl boss. And I was like, I want to die. I'm so tired. And, oh, my God, things are falling through the cracks. The busier I got, the more disorganized I became, the more frantic my thoughts became. And I think that's not a unique experience for a lot of people who get really busy. But it just sucked.

I was like, okay, so I did it. I felt really good. I was more or less doubling my income every year or at least improving on it quite a bit. And then when I hit my 1st was like, I had a panic attack. I was like, do I have to do this again next year? This sucked. I didn't like this at all. I feel like my marriage is going to fall apart at any moment. I don't like myself.

I'm, like, losing weight, but I feel terrible about myself. Everything was just awful, except for what social media and my data analytics told me. I was like, you should feel better. And then there's that whole imposter syndrome and guilt tripping of like, why are you crying? You have money and you did it, and you have social media, and blah, blah, blah. You asked for this. And I was like, oh, my God. And, oh, my God, what a mind trip to go through that. And again, Covid was awful, but there was a lot of really beneficial things that happened when Covid happened and the world shut down.

That was the first time I feel like, in my adult life and in my entrepreneurial journey, that I actually slowed down, that I was in know house, my dream condo that I bought in Seattle for more than three weeks. That was the first time I'd been in Seattle, and still for longer than three weeks in years. I was like, I have to stay here. I'm freaking out. So it was a lot of, like, that was like, hustle. Go, go, do, do. What's the next cool thing? What's the next fun thing? Like, whatever. And all I had on my mind was scaling bigger, more without any frame, any reflection back, of like, well, do I actually want this, or does it just look really cool? Do I want to be running in these circles or not? Do their values.

I have a value. What's that? So many people are like, I don't know, what are my values? I do a lot of training on values and helping people come back to their values and living values driven and values based lives and building things that way. And I had never really thought about it. And then the first time I did a values exercise, I picked a lot of really pretty ones that sounded nice, and I was like, isn't this good? Is anyone going to give me my gold star? Look at how nice my values are. And even that was like, this hustle culture of, like, well, her values. Most of even sound good. Like, oh, my God, nothing's good enough. Nothing's good enough.

Maybe I should be. Oh, well, I'm not a philanthropist. Then. Maybe I'm just a piece of shit. Okay, no, we can all have different values. But it was interesting to see how much had woven into it. So like, this judgment, this endless competition, especially with myself, that nothing I did was ever good enough. I could never relax.

I was going to bed and waking up in the middle of the night. I was always panicking. I was like, did I forget something? That's how my life felt. I feel like there's something that I'm missing, and there's something that I need to do. And even when I did catch up, I was like, there's got to be something I missed. I shouldn't have a Saturday. What's a Saturday? I should be working. I should be out.

I'm at home. I should just have a panic attack all day then, because what am I doing? I don't know what I'm doing. Something's wrong. So that was really wild, and I still wrote that through. I did the best I could, and that was part of why I came into coaching, too. This cannot be it. This cannot be the peak. Like, you just keep doing it over and over again.

No. If this is it, then I don't want this. I want something else. I'll go figure it out. But I know that this isn't it. I don't care how much money I wake. If I am exhausted and I hate myself, it's not worth it. So I'm out.

There has to be something else. So I focus on that in my coaching. Like, how do we find balance? Okay, what do we want to do? And then when I got more of my coaching and more of my apprentice time, and I've learned more about really being, like, a deeper, more embodied coach, coming back to finding a balance with hustle. Because for me, my last year, let me tell you something. 2023 was not at all the year that I had planned or forecasted or anything. 2023 was, like, a fluke year, and it was so weird, and it was almost more exhausting doing so much less. And in retrospect, I had the best year ever. I had so much fun.

I still made great money. I spent a summer in Seattle doing weekend stuff for the first time ever again. I was, have you guys just do this? You guys could just go on and out of whims. Saturday? That's fucking nuts. People are just out here living on the weekends. Amazing. And so that was very validating and, like, okay, cool. But I swung my pendulum so far into flow that I wasn't doing anything.

And at the end of 2022, I was like, I'm tired again. I don't really want to build anything. I don't want to launch a bunch of stuff next year. I still did, of course, but I was like, I'm not trying to ten x my life next year. I just kind of want to maintain this and relax. And I said that in December, and then every year, so old hustle culture every month, I was like, okay, let me just rest for one more week, and then I'll get back to it. Then I'll ten x my life, and then I'll really go for it, and I'll really do all the things that I set on my intentions. And I'm like, every week went by, every month went by, and I was like, I don't want to.

I don't want to. I'm really enjoying what I'm doing. But it didn't feel like I was like, why am a business coach shouldn't be, like, a multimillion dollar person at this point who's ever going to hire me again if I'm not launching and constantly evolving and being a better person? I'm tired listening to you guys. That's just, what if we existed? And what if that was okay, too? So even that was such a great learning to examine that. And then I was on the hustle hate train for a minute. I was like, hustle, blah, blah, blah. Even though I knew that I liked hustle. This is a fun parallel with your subconscious mind.

All I was saying, and all I was saying was like, I don't want to hustle. I don't want to hustle. I don't want to hustle. What I meant in my conscious mind was like, I don't want a toxic hustle. I don't want to just grind my ass off without any consideration for the way I want to live my life. But all my subconscious was like, all right, no hustle. Let's chill out, baby. Let's foot off the gas.

Let's turn the car off. And I was like, cool. So coming now. I'm like, all right. I'm a long history of the pendulum swinging all the way one way and all the way the other. Just kind of like the mosquitoes at night, like, going past the middle, and I'm like, all right. This year is my year of discipline. I love to work.

I do really enjoy it. And are we allowed to say that we enjoy hustling and enjoy working? Yes, you are, of course. Right? I love this. I do love creating my things. And if I can take away release work through these old thoughts that are just kind of cutting me off at the Knees, then, yes. My little motto is, like, your life, your success, your way, period. And there's a way to make that happen always, no matter what. There's a way to have all of those three things intersect so you can create a life that you like that's not someone else's, because they said, this is how you do it.

And you follow their ten steps, and you're like, wait, this is not the mountain I wanted to climb. What the hell? I have to go all the way back now. So. So building those together and just dismantling what toxic hustle culture did and how I have accidentally, in my own subconscious and in my own belief, said that all hustle was bad. So there was no defining factor that hustles like, oh, well, you like this hustle, but not that hustle. It's like, no, all hustle.

Yeah.

So anyway, coming back to that, if anyone has felt that full switch, because I saw that a lot in my clients, I saw that a lot in other creators is everyone worked their ass off and they get really burnt out, and then they're like, bye. Moving to the woods, going to homestead, and have chickens, and I'm never calling anyone back. I'm going to throw my phone out the window, and I'm going to bury it in my garden. Like, fuck all of you. Don't call me. I don't exist anymore. And so I saw so much of that. And when you're really burnt out and really tired and you have all of this mental low, they're like, it'd be so nice to just pick up shit outside and walk my dog and leaves.

Yeah, pick up eggs. Like, oh, my God, wouldn't that be nice? And it's just this fantasy, and I think we all know. I think you might also feel this, too. No matter where you go, there you are. So the same issues that you have in the city with your big life or your multi passion, your ten businesses, is the same thing you'll have if you don't address them. And when you go to your farm, I'm sure you'll have 100 chickens of every possible breed that are really hard to take care of.

We have 60 ducks right now.

Oh, my God. I love that we're talking farm life with you. So I'm like, I bet she has 60 chickens. 60 ducks.

But I want to get chickens. No, but I think for me, going through the winter break, I took a really good not complete social media detox, but I didn't post anything other than check in stories. Like, it wasn't about business at all. And it's like, how can we redefine hustle to a healthy version. And for me, right now, that looks like 4 hours a day. How can I create doctor on 4 hours a day that allows me to have an hour at the gym, an hour to get ready, an hour lunch, and then pick up kids by four.

I love that you said that.

Yeah, it's possible. It's totally doable.

Yes. Even my old hustle culture comes up, because on Wednesday nights, there are two back to back yoga classes at my studio that I really love. And I was like, well, I have to choose one. I can't be there for 3 hours. I'm like, why not? Who fucking said? It's like 07:00 p.m. Of course I could be here if, I could be here for 5 hours if I really wanted to. But even that's like, well, I shouldn't spend that much time working out, or I shouldn't spend that much time. Oh, my God, that massage is going to be an hour.

Okay, well, it's an hour out of my day. I'm like, hilarious. It's funny noticing how sneaky they are, and they'll come up when you're least expecting it, and you're like, no, I could take a whole day to take yoga classes if I wanted to because this is my business, and I can make adjustments. And, yeah, how do we prioritize? I think even that, especially, I see when people transition. I would say our generation has transitioned from, like, nine to five. That's what you do. You go, you work for corporate, you get a good job, a stable job, you work nine to five. That is the expectation.

And so when a lot of people come into entrepreneurship, sure, there's a lot of phases where we do kind of need to work a little longer, and we kind of burn the midnight oil because there's a lot of stuff that we really are excited about. But eventually, there comes a point where we're like, okay. I feel like as a seasoned entrepreneur now, we're like, okay, we've experienced every level of this hustle or non hustle, and now here's what I like. So some people want to work 4 hours a week. Some people want to work 110 hours day and then be off the rest of it. And that's, again, the same thing. There's no wrong way to do it. Some people want to grind for four months and take the rest of the eight off.

Yeah, amazing. And I think that's one of my favorite things, too, with coaching, is it's so interesting to see how sneaky again, it's very sneaky. Like how boxed in a lot of people's thinking is. So when we're doing, I could do a lot of goal setting with my clients and vision casting and let's manifest, but also build the action plan that gets you on the manifestation train. And it's wild. What sounds like regurgitated or what. I'm like, okay, is that really what you want? And they're like, well, no one's ever asked me that. I don't know.

Hold on. I want ducks. I don't want chickens. I want ducks. Everyone gets chickens, though. That's so interesting.

Well, it is. And so I think we are in this shift. We're going from this another. It's not an industrialization shift, it's a technology shift. And this hybrid lifestyle shift that we're in for the last three years, and I think it's going to continue. People want autonomy. They want freedom of choice, right?

Ultimately.

But what I'm seeing now, especially with Gen Z, is they are wanting everything to be perfect for them to start. They want the career done, the money made, whatever, before they get married, before they have the kids, and now literally having enough babies in America or in the world. I think we're like, down on population fine, but it's endless times, right? Like, it's scary. Shift in entrepreneurs. Do you coach any younger people? What are some of the thoughts that they're having? Have you heard any?

That's interesting. I feel like I have a lot of the vas that come into my space are the big, the big va boom of the pandemic I've ever wanted. Oh, I can work from home. Let me monetize my skills.

Great.

Amazing. So I have a lot of those. I feel like newer entrepreneurs are often younger, but also, I would say maybe because this is just my demographic and the people that I attract. I work with a lot of millennial age. I work mostly with millennial age people. Occasionally I'll get people who are like Gen Z adjacent, but not anyone who's like full Gen Z. And I think that's part of it, too. Again, maybe this is just not my realm, but I feel like Gen Z is real woke.

And so a lot of what I teach, they are already like, oh, we've already talked about manifestation and get your vibrate and get your energy to. Gen Z is very woo woo. And then let's do. And let's. I love that about Gen Z. They're like, we're going to do it, and we're going to do it better than you fucking weirdos who burnt out and went all crazy. Okay, you didn't have to do that. So we're going to do it this way.

I'm like, amazing. Go do it. My demographic, I feel like, is mostly millennials. I think because I work with a lot of people who have already established themselves. They're usually a little bit older, usually like mid twenty s to early forty s, or then, like, okay. I live this life of I'm doing one thing and I have to niche down. And that's what you do, right? You burn all your other bridges. So then you're a serious.

Whatever you are. I'm going to gouge my eyes out. Can you help me do something else? I'd like to have. I want to be fulfilled, and I want to feel creative and excited, and I don't. Everything else looks fine again, like, on social media and my metrics and my bank account. Yes or no? But I don't feel great. And maybe there's something else. So I feel like I'll eventually work with Gen Z's once they've kind of crested.

I don't work with a ton of Gen Z's. I think my youngest client right now, she's 25, right?

Yeah, that's Gen Z.

Okay. Millennials, but interesting.

I have a couple of agents that are in that age range. They're like 23, 24, and just. They're wanting it all right now, but then they're also willing to sacrifice their personal life to get it. Whereas millennials are like babies at 22. I got a timeline. It was just very different. Get married, have the baby. We're going to do it all.

And I. But, yeah, now it's just kind of like, what do I really want? What really feels good? That'll. The next chapter. Okay. I wanted to ask you, too. You've always got a good finger on social media, on TikTok, on what's happening out there with the world.

What do you feel? So flattering. It's good.

Like you're in the know. Whereas I feel like, here we go.

You've got it. I feel the same way about you. So let's like. Okay, let me. What is Marina? Marina knows what she's doing. That's so amazing. This is my favorite thing about perception, too, and I think that's just a good reminder for all of us, is that I would say there's, like, a very small percentage. We're like, I really know the ins and outs of what I'm doing, and a lot of us are just winging it.

But in a good way. I don't think anyone's expected to be an expert in every single area. And I thought that I had to be, which also kept me from offering or venturing into the coaching sphere at all because, like, well, I don't know how. I'm not a marketing expert yet, or I'm not a branding expert. I know about these things and I can do them pretty well. I can get people started, at least to proficiency, but I'm an expert. So anyway, I don't feel like a social media expert at all. But I do love social media.

What's going on with the world? I love following trends and I follow a lot of forecasters. I think they're really interesting. And I love that it's becoming more and more human in a really good way. A lot of it is storytelling. What I don't love that I feel like whatever may be finger on the pulse of it is that I can't turn my brain off now. Every piece of content that I see, I'm like, ooh, good story. Ooh, good hook. Nice segue.

And I'm like, damn it. I can't even just enjoy mindless. Like, oh, yeah, you really tugged on an emotion there. Yeah, that connects. Amazing. I'm like, shut up. Just mindlessly scroll. Like, even my mindless scrolling is, like, not mindless.

But anyway, I do love that it's more emotional and I love that we've moved away from the really gross selling.

Me too.

This year I attended a webinar and it was someone who was selling this really cool thing. I was like, oh, my God, check, check. That sounds fucking fun. Like, 2020 h three was like, my year of like, let's go learn things. Let's just go vibe with people. So I was on a lot of different things and was like, this is fun. I'm enjoying it. And I went into this podcast or this webinar, and I went through his sales funnel.

We went to his end. It was a guy, which was unfortunately red flag number one just with the way that I usually end up working with people. And I got the biggest excel from him in the grossest way. And I was like, I cannot believe this is happening. And I was also like, I'm not brand new. I know what your next question is going to be because you're following my nose and you're like, I'm telling you as clearly and directly in you. It was just so weird. So part of what I love and this is, like, part social and part selling is I realize I'm like, I'm so fucking pragmatic, I don't need a lot of convincing.

I like to see some data and I want it. Well, maybe I do need convincing, but I like to see the things that matter. But if I've said no, I do mean no. And I'm okay to be like, if you want to question, like, okay, great. Well, I believe in you, and I know it's going to be the right time. There's definitely a balance between totally check the vibe and let's flow with it versus like, well, why no? And maybe you just don't love yourself or you're not committed if you don't spend this money right now. And I'm like, no, what the hell? I was like, I cannot believe this is happening. And I know it's still taught, too, but I'm like, okay.

There's a difference between being able to see people as empowered decision making adults, which we all are, and I have enough respect for my clients. Like, oh, cool. Whenever we start to work together, or don't like, hey, are you feeling good? Or are you all set? I'm complete. I'm like, perfect. Great. See you on social. Oh, my God. Anyway, so I love that it's kind of like that there's more.

I know we've moved away from pain point marketing, which I still don't. I feel like I don't even understand the difference. I'm like, I do, but I still hear you talking about what I'm struggling with. Anyway, whatever, but I appreciate that it's gotten much more human. I do like that we're moving away from influence. I do feel like a lot of things are being sold right now. Like when I'm on TikTok, I'm like, every other one is an ad. I'm like, I do love the affiliate era that we're in.

I do like to be sold things that have social proof. Like, I'm a big fan of that. I'm very influenceable. Amazing. You love it. Me too. Let me buy it. Add to cart.

But I like that things are slightly more vetted now versus before. Everyone's like, oh, yeah, I saw this thing. Like, do you, have you used it? I thought you said that gave you a massive breakout. Why are you recommending it?

Yeah, people would just influence anything, and now it's like, do you really, truly, authentically support something?

I hope that. Exactly.

Storytelling.

Me too.

Should be good. Keep it. Be real. Be you.

Yeah, I'm going to find out again. We are all capable, empowered, knowledgeable, human beings. I would love to be treated as such. And I like to treat my clients that way, too. And that's my best. As entrepreneurs, we're mostly showing up on social to sell in some capacity. Whether selling the thing that we like, the hair thing that we used, or the lifestyle we live, we're always selling something. Even just like, I'm feeling really peaceful and with my kids.

Great. Selling this life that you are off in the woods in the snow with your kids, even though you're not actively selling a product. And it's such a good reminder. I get in my head a lot when I'm starting to make selling content. I think that's the first red flag. Like, stop making selling content. Just make content and have an awareness of a cool, like, all right, so this is going to nurture people or this is going to be expanding my audience. Okay, great.

And I do know when to ask for a sell. Like, I great at selling. We know when to do that. But also my mantra this year has been, I'm a good person with good intentions, period. So even if I get canceled or someone misunderstands me or someone thinks what I've done is ick or cringe. Okay, great. I know that I didn't do that intentionally. I know that I'm a good person with good intentions.

And that's been like the most grounding thing for me, talking about social media, even though it's like a really irrational fear. I have a fear of being canceled. I'm like, what would I ever say? I'm a good person with good intentions. What could I ever say that would be so awful that someone would do that consciously? I know that I'm capable of handling anything that came up.

That's just our brain trying to protect you. That's why.

Right. I'm like, don't throw me out of the tribe, please. My tribe is awesome. You can stay. So I feel like if anyone has that fear, that's my favorite mantra. I'm like, okay, if I start to worry, is this going to be misunderstood or is it right? Is it the right time? Is it perfect? I'm like, okay, I'm a good person with good intentions. I'm doing my best with what I have and with what I know. Sam, publish.

Go.

And one of the things you mentioned is do you have the selling filter on or are you doing nurturing or whatever? I think that's one thing that hiring you as a coach helps you reshift all the time. Because we get down this road so far, we don't even realize how far we are off on the road. And then you just kind of help.

Redavigate us explorer is correct. I think that's so important. This is all stuff that, you know, I rarely feel like I'm teaching something that's totally groundbreaking. I'm not inventing brand new things, but I'm, like, bringing them back into your awareness again, the people that I work with are educated and empowered, and they know what they're doing. But if you're stuck in your echo chamber for so long by yourself, you stop having any sort of perspective. So that's what I love doing, is like, okay, well, let's zoom out, or let's zoom in. Let's fact check. Let's vibe check this.

And I feel like you do what I do in different capacities for people all the time. We talked about that when we were coaching together. You do all of these things. And so a lot of times when I'm working with really high powered, successful, top of their class people, you just need a you for you, because you just can't. There's no way to have the right or the best perspective or any perspective potentially on yourself when it's just you. And so, again, as a good coach, is asking the right questions. And let's get perspective. Let's check the vibe.

Let's have an awareness. And so some of my clients, we're not even doing really practical tactical stuff. Sometimes it's just like I'm having an epiphany, like, whatever, and it's just questions, and they're your answers. That's what I love, asking the right questions. Asking good questions get you to your own right answers because you already know what you're doing. We just lost a little perspective. We took a wrong turn. And how do we get the Google.

Maps back on, which is priceless. Worth every single priceless.

My God, how I feel about my console with you. Come to me. I would love to help you turn on Google Maps or Apple maps or whatever maps you use, please.

Thank you.

Reroute. Yes. My last thing with that is, like, direction. A lot of times, a lot of people are really successful and they don't actually have a good feel on where they are and don't actually know where they want to go. So it's a lot of this just like, driving in circles and doing donuts in a parking lot. And I don't know. I'm doing stuff, but I'm not going anywhere. No.

Literally, as entrepreneurs, we set a destination that some influencer put for us not the one that we picked. And then we're like, why don't I feel good?

I feel awful. Yes. Okay, let's wrap. Okay.

So quick, rapid fire at the end. It's always fun. What's your favorite?

Yes, my favorite Starbucks order. I don't drink coffee. Do you?

Tea, anything?

I don't go to Starbucks ever. I haven't gone to Starbucks in years. I drink boba tea protein at home right now. That's my latest kick. It's really good. Love it.

What do you make for dinner? If it's last minute and you're in a have.

We have Simon. We have Simon. And we add egg and we add some hot chili oil, and that's like, go to. We're bored. We don't want to do it. Yep.

Fave. Go to department of target. Do you have.

Like, never leave my house? I am a true homebody. If I go to target, though, I like to touch all the pillows. I'm a very tactile shopper. I just touch everything. And if it's soft, I'll look at it.

Yeah, can we get that on, please?

Tactile. Is it soft? Yeah. Everything has to be soft. I'm very tactile person in general.

Name a book or podcast you'd recommend.

Oh, my God. This is so Akatar.

Oh, God, yes.

Big fan. That got me out of my reading in my creative slump in 2020. That's like bandwagon. But it was a really fun read if you like fantasy and romance, which I do. Big fan. Also podcast. I really love manifestation babe. I've been following her forever, and she's always really fun.

Yeah.

For those who don't know what Akatar is, it's a court of thorns and roses. What do you call fantasy romance.

It's great. Yeah, it's very, like, young adult. If you get far enough, it turns into an adult. Readers, be warned.

Okay. TikTok or Instagram?

TikTok. I'm coming around to Instagram, though. I had a big Instagram egg for a minute, but now I'm like, all right, I like the recording better on Instagram, but I like the content better on TikTok.

Yeah, same. Where can listeners find you online? Where's the best place?

I am chelseaabrill everywhere. So that's Chelsea. One more. A b, as in boy. R I l.com. That's how often I have to spell my name out. So chelseaabrill everywhere. TikTok.

It's always my handle. Chelseabrill.

And then what's the best place for people to really dive in and get to know what it is you do. Set up the consult call. Should they just dm you go to your website? What's the best one?

I feel like again, as we talked about, go check my vibe. Go see if you like me. Listen to this podcast as you are doing right now. Go find me on TikTok and Instagram. I don't always have the same things on both platforms. And then set up a free consult with me. It's 30 minutes. It's a vibe check.

We can talk about basically anything. It's not necessarily a coaching call, but check the vibe. Come play, come have fun. I'm a lot of fun, I think so. I think you should come over. We'll have a great time.

I think she has a lot of great thought provoking things. That's what's the best thing about you. You really just like shake up the shit.

What's important.

So I think everyone can have a Chelsea in their back pocket. So with that, my dear wrap. Thank you so much. That was so much fun. Thank you.

Oh, my God. What a pleasure to be in your circle. What a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much for everything that you do just for existing. You're incredible. Love.