This week on Work Like A Mother, Marina chats with guest Brian Hirono, an expert in VA loans, about their importance and underutilization in the veteran community. Brian shares his non-traditional entry into the mortgage industry and his passion for serving veterans through education and tailored financial services. With almost 90% of his business involving VA loans, Brian emphasizes their benefits, such as zero down payment and no PMI, due to government backing. The discussion covers eligibility criteria for active duty members, retirees, National Guards, Reserves, and surviving spouses. Marina points out the huge potential in the real estate market, as less than 12% of veterans use their benefits. They also touch on legislation that may allow veterans to pass down their benefits, impacting generational wealth. The episode delves into the necessity of educating veterans about their resources and adapting communication strategies in the ever-changing real estate landscape.

Mentioned in this Episode:

The Go-Giver, Bob Burg and John David Mann

Brian Hirono

IG: @mortgagemillennial_

YT: @mortgagemillennial

Marina Tolentino

https://www.marinatolentino.com/

IG: @marinattolentino_

YT: @marinatolentino

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Transcript:

All right. On today's episode of work like a mother, I have my dear friend, Mr. Brian Harano. And we're going to get nitty gritty about VA loans because I feel like it's a pond that no one has really jumped in yet to the max that they could. So with that, let's roll into just real quick. Who are you? Brian. Why do we love working together? So give us your quick bio.

Yeah, sure. So my name is Brian Hirono, as he already knows. And when I introduce myself, I usually say Hirono. Like Maisie Hirono. No relation. Literally, no. Yeah. I've been a lender for about almost going on three years now.

And before that, my background is in film and tv and also in aviation industry. I was trained to be a commercial, and it was by happenstance, really, that I got involved into the VA world. I don't have military background. None of my parents were military. I don't have military experience. But it's a community that I think is underserved. Or let me put, they're not served as well as they deserve to be. And so when I had the opportunity to start working in the VA community, in the veteran community, it's been really rewarding and fruitful in the work that we do, especially together.

Right?

Absolutely.

So, yeah, I like to tell myself, I like to tell my clients usually that I'm not your typical finance bro. I have an arts background. I view the whole process of building a loan and getting the loan funded as if I were telling their story. So I always liken myself to being either like, a producer or a publisher or an editor of their life story of this next chapter. And so I like to get creative with how we can structure financing, how we communicate, and all that stuff. So, yeah, I think that's one of the reasons why we work so well, is that we get to have fun and be creative and really change people's lives. Right?

100%. We could tell you story after story of just so many amazing successes that we didn't think were possible, and we figured out a way. But for the audience, they're probably wondering, well, isn't this like a woman's show for wealth and real estate? Like, why is Brian on this show? But I'm going to say it's just because everyone needs a Brian in their back pocket. So we started around the same time, 2020 ish. Since then, you have escalated your career. I've just seen you smashed win after win after win. You just bought a house, you got married, you just got a puppy. You just got the Tesla, like, life is happening for you.

And I think there are a lot of just signs behind of what you've done and some things that have helped your career. And so one of those is utilizing the VA loan 100%. Would you say that's like 90% of your business?

I would say it's close to 90% this year. I would say the bread and butter for my business is VA. And also first time home buyers. This year, I've seen a lot more first time home buyers really getting serious. So it's been closer to about 60 40. But overall, in my career, I would say 90% is VA. Yeah.

And so let's just roll into that a little bit, because I'm assuming that not everyone that's listening knows exactly what the VA loan is. Or if they do know a little bit, there's still probably some things we can close up there and then just for people listening, if they don't know me, I'm a Coast Guard veteran spouse. We've pcs multiple times, used our VA loan, and I'm ready to use it again. So there's just, again, so much opportunity. But let's break it down. Give us like the VA loan 101. Just like if it's an FHA, we're putting on a different hat now. What is a VA loan?

Yeah. So the VA loan is a government loan. The money does not come from the government. The government backs the loan, they guarantee the loan. And so in lending, it's all about risk and risk management. Right. So when there's the backing of the US government, when there's the backing of the US government, then lenders tend to mitigate. When the US government backs a loan product, then a lot of the risk factors are mitigated.

So, for example, with a VA as a lender, I will go to the bank and the bank will put up the money for the loan. But the US Department of Veteran affairs guarantees the loan up to 25% of the value of the home or the loan. Okay, so what does that mean? It means that in the case that the borrower defaults or does not pay their mortgage payment anymore and they have to go into foreclosure, there's a lot of legal fees, administrative fees that gets tacked on to the actual loan itself. So even if they were able to sell the property, they would still need some extra money, funds to be able to recoup their loss. Right. So the guarantee is 25% that the US government backs up. So what does that mean? So that means that lenders are more willing to offer lower rates, and that's why VA allows for zero down 100% financing. It offers no PMI, which is private mortgage insurance.

And there's a lot of different perks like that. So all in all, in a nutshell, the VA, I think, is one of the most superior loan programs out there. It's just misrepresented or misunderstood a lot of the. I think, you know, part of my job is not only to actually originate loans or close loans, but it's actually going out there and educating people about the VA home loan benefit. Yeah.

So let's just talk about that. Who's eligible? Who doesn't know that they're eligible?

Maybe. Yeah. So people, obviously, active duty service members, they're eligible. If you're retired, you're eligible. So anything above a dishonorable discharge, whether it's a medical separation, administrative separation, or anything else that's above a dishonorable discharge, you're still eligible. Your eligibility will stick with you for the remainder of your life as long as you don't defraud the bank or the VA. There's crazy stories, but as long as you're using it properly as intended, you have it for the rest of your life. And in some cases, surviving spouses also are eligible as well.

In some cases, surviving spouses are also eligible as well. And if their spouse, the service member, passed away from a service related illness or injury or something like that, then that eligibility will transfer to the surviving.

That's huge, and I'm so glad that that program allows that because spouses need it. That's hard.

Yeah, absolutely. And obviously, there's caveats and a big asterisk, which we won't go into too much detail right now, but explore it, though. Yeah, exactly. Definitely. Do your research. Another cool thing, and the last time I read this was about six months ago, but I was reading an article. It was saying that there were some members of Congress that were trying to pass a bill so that veterans can pass their VA benefit down to their children and grandchildren.

That's insane.

That would be a game changer.

Totally.

That would be a huge game changer for so many families that maybe have been in bondage, of poverty, of just bad socioeconomic circumstances, that releases them and really just gives them a step up to create generational wealth. So that's a huge change. If that happens now, it's just an idea. I think in Congress, there's no legislation. Nothing's been being voted on. But, I mean, just the possibility of it.

No, that's huge. Okay. And then what about National Guard reserve? A lot of people think, well, I was never active duty, so I don't get all the same perks. How does that work?

So, with National Guard and reserve, there were some changes that happened in the last few years. National Guard reserves eligible for sure. There's a little bit more requirements, though. So typically, if you're active duty, then you need to have 90 days of continuous service in order to become eligible. So typically for most soldiers, once they get out of boot camp and then they get to their first pcs or their first duty station, they're usually eligible for national Guard reserves. It's a minimum six years, typically. But more importantly, it's the total sum of retirement points that they have. So depending on which branch we need to get, basically their point statement, their retirement point statement.

And so I've had a guy who he was in the reserves, served maybe back in the 90s, into the early 2000s, definitely in his mind, he served for more than six years, but he didn't attend any of his drills, so he didn't get enough points to become eligible. So unfortunately for that gentleman, yeah, he wasn't eligible. And it was just like, oh, I wish I had gone to the drills. Yeah.

And one thing, just as I was prepping for this, is like, well, what is the opportunity, right? It seems like if you're not by a base, why would you really care? Or if you don't have a ton of military in your community? So, according to government data, the statistic is that fewer than 12% of the country's estimated 24 million veterans are currently using their benefits. So that's a huge opportunity. And it's not just, again, in military hotspots, it's literally everywhere across the nation and Guam, Puerto Rico, et cetera. Because what happens is someone, let's say they even get out after eight years, ten years, like us, they're not retired, but they go back to their home of record, right? So that could be in the middle of nowhere, in Oklahoma, wherever you are, or could know all over the midwest, it doesn't matter. But you definitely have a ton of veterans in your neighborhood that need to be serviced. And they literally don't know this information. And we hear all the time, these know, they think they can only use it once, so they never consider it again, or they think, xYz, it's a certain limit, which is also not true if we can with bust. But I just think so much opportunity is a big one.

Did you want to add anything?

Yeah. And just to add to that. Just to add to that the beauty about what I think I do, and I view myself more as a storyteller, but I got to listen to people's stories first, right? So when you start having conversations with people, wherever you go, just the types of questions you ask, that opens up the door for them to share their life story. And then in that life story, there might be that chapter when they once served. I'll give you a quick example. Today. This morning, I had to run into town to buy a wall connector for my Tesla, right. Because I've been using, like, a slow charger, and it's been absolutely awful.

So I finally went to go buy one from the service center, and then there was no one there because I guess everyone was attending to other people. And then the service manager came out, the service center manager. And then he was helping me out, and we started talking about solar and things like that, and then it just popped out. I told him that I do mortgages and, like, X, Y, and Z, and he's like, oh, my gosh, I'm a veteran. I have a va question. I was like, awesome. I'm actually a va specialist. That's what my bread and butter is in.

So he was like, come into my office and we had a 30 minutes conversation about assumption and this and that. And it's just all about talking story and more importantly, listening to their story. And then when you dig out those facts and understand where they might have been in the past, then it helps you, I think, navigate into this world a little bit better.

And I think if you don't have military glasses on, sometimes we forget to even ask those questions. So every single buyer's consultation I ask, have you ever served in the military? That is a non negotiable, because people don't understand this benefit that they have. It really is a blessing to them to be able to use it. Okay, so if people are not a va heavy realtor, I want to know this. What is the biggest advice you have for someone to get into that world? Let's say they're just traditionally serving their high school classmates or whatever. They've just been in the business five to ten years. They're just Joe schmo. How do you even get into that world?

Well, I think in this day and age, there's a lot of different ways, and maybe that's overwhelming for most people because there's so many options. A couple of things that I'm involved in as well as you are, is AUSA, the association of United States army? It's a nonprofit organization that serves the army. And there's local chapters. So maybe if you're not here in Hawaii, maybe find a local chapter that's near you and start to get involved. Offer your time and volunteer. They have different events, different chapters will have different events. So volunteer, find different ways that you can connect and serve and give back. I think it comes from that servants attitude where what can I give back or give of value before you ask and receive.

Right. So I think that's another great way. Another great way is Facebook groups, social media. There's so many different military spouse know pcs, which is permanent change of station. For those of you that don't know, permanent change of station means when they change duty stations and move from one location to another location, that's pcs. So there's different pcs, Facebook groups, all that stuff. And so finding a way to just start providing value to those communities and those groups, I think that's kind of going to be the best way in this day and age. You've done really well with your YouTube, social media, all that stuff, and that's all out there.

Right. And people can search education first. Exactly what are you providing and bringing to the table first before you ask for something?

Yeah, 100%. And I just think, too, one thing to mention is the referral network is so strong. And so again, if you don't have this part of your business on lock, you are missing out on a ton because these people move all the time. If you're active military, you're consistently moving every three to five years. Well, guess what? That's great turnover. And you should absolutely be getting it on the buy and the sell and the referral. So that's three potential transactions an agent can make money on. And then again, you're just building that relationship over time.

So even if they come back to your state, you should still be in touch with them ten years later, 20 years later, just so many good benefits. I wanted to kind of dive into what we've experienced during the pandemic, which was chaos. Today, obviously, we're in a very different market. What was working back then that is still working today, and how are you helping buyers get their loans accepted?

I think what was working back then and is still working now is communication and being on top of communicating with the buyer, the buyer's agent, even the listing agent. And for me personally, I do that a lot by video. And so I'll always send out a video walk through of different scenarios as I'm sending out my pre approval letter and pre approving my clients, I'll send it out to the buyer's agent, and then once we submit offers, I'll do another video for the listing agent that they can share to their sellers. Because what I've learned is that the agents are there as intermediaries to communicate information. So the listing agent's job, I think sometimes we look at the listing agent as the enemy. They're not. They're another collaborator.

We're linking arms.

Yes. So it's like, how can I best serve the listing agent to help them help their clients. Right. The listing agent needs to explain the offer and then kind of give their professional opinion, this and that. So if I can help, as the lender, highlight some of the things that will help the listing agent tell that story the best way possible to the seller. I'm going to do that. So that's worked from the COVID pandemic days to now. A lot has changed, though, in how the business is run and how transactions happen.

Right. So I think another constant is consistently changing and evolving. Right. If you were using the same strategies you were in 2020 today, you're missing out. I think those are the things. Communication and constantly being willing to change, learn and grow.

Yeah, those are huge. And the one thing you left off, though, is you're just like a credit master. I feel like when negotiating credits.

Yeah.

So one of the things that's like our sweet spot, I feel like, is our clients are va. Right. So they don't have a lot of cash on hand, or they do have maybe up to 10,000, but we don't want to put 7000 out of their savings into this transaction. Right. So we're trying to save our clients money from day one so we can do that by negotiating credits from the seller, which I think is more common today because of high interest rates. But we were doing that all 2021, 2022 and consistently helping our clients win in the rare occasion we even got one client to have their debt paid off, which was amazing. But agents just don't understand the power of leveraging a knowledgeable lender like you, I would say. And the communication is huge.

So one thing you didn't touch on either is, like, how we have our text threads going on. So I've worked with lenders where they stick it to email only. They work nine to five, and that's it. And if I submit something on a weekend, I'm probably waiting till Monday to get a response with you. It's like you have set the bar so high. Because I know, number one, we're starting a group text right after the consult, so everyone's on the same page. We're showing properties. Okay, top two.

Brian, can you run numbers for us same day or within 24 hours? For sure. You're giving us numbers so that I can sit down and really help advise my client with education, not as a selling agent, but to say, these are your choices. These are all great. Would you like a, b or c? And it just makes them understand and comprehend it, because loans are like puzzle pieces. There are so many different moving structures. And as agents, sometimes we don't even understand all the different things you're trying to macGyver. And so I think that's just huge in one way that you've, like, anytime I interview another lender, now you are the bar.

I think it kind of comes back to the name of this podcast, right? You're a very busy person. I'm a very busy person. I travel a lot. So if I'm not on top of my communication and doing a group text with the buyer, with the buyer spouse or a family member, whoever's involved, going to be emotionally and mentally involved in this transaction, I want them all on the same group text. So we're always on the same page. Because I've had one too many times where there was miscommunication, game of telephone, that something got misinterpreted and everything just went south and just a bad experience for everybody. So that's why I always ask early on, after the very first consultation, let's get on a group chat. And if you find properties, if you have questions, drop it in there.

Drop it in there. And that is a mechanism for me personally, because I know I'm always traveling. If I can't respond right away, at least there's someone else there that can respond, or at least that knows that I'm probably in the air or I don't have reception or whatever it is, that it's teamwork, it's all about collaboration. And it starts with that. Unified. Right? So, yeah, for sure. Spot on.

Yeah. And I think just, it shows that trust between the clients, too, that Marina and Brian work together a lot. And I just get one, I get both of them, and then we always have each other's back. You know, there's always situations where it might hit the know and you're like, oh, crap. But Marina's got my know no matter what, or vice versa. And it just really helps that confidence for a buyer who is a first time buyer with limited cash, they're freaked out already. The market's crazy, the rates are crazy, and now we're going to try to buy a house. Well, Marina and Brian said it was good and a good investment, and they showed me the exit plan in advance.

100%. That's great.

Maybe this is a little tip of the day kind of thing. And this is a conversation I actually have with one of your team members, Jet. I don't know if I should name drop, but I'll just say. But this is a conversation that I have actually with one of your team members. Is that in that group chat? Let's ask the question of who else in your family or your inner circle would you like them to come on this journey with you of home buying? And the reason is because, I don't know if you remember, there was a client that we had that actually wasn't a client. She fell through. But later in the transaction, we found out that her mom or one of her parents was advising her on this home purchase transaction. And we didn't know about that.

And then we couldn't really understand where the mother or the parent was coming from, and so that just kind of canceled the transaction. Right. So for me, I really want this experience, this journey, to be a fun one. I want it to be a positive one. And if we don't have all the people that are important to you involved from day one, then it's part of my job to make sure that everyone's best interest is protected, including the parent that's living on the mainland, 5000 miles away, including the fiance or whoever it might be. I want everyone to be in the fold and know that we're on this journey together.

Yeah, no, that's all great. And I think just really good reminders to dive into this world if you're not used to VA, just like what I've been saying. But there's a lot to learn. There's military lingo. If you're not used to it, link up with a mentor in your area who does this all day, every day. And you're not just in Hawaii, you're in multiple states, too. And so if someone goes to California, you can totally service them, which is awesome. And just be.

That smooth transition between states is really critical. One thing I wanted to wrap up with, it's not Va related. Well, kind of is, but like, the whole NAr lawsuit going on with commissions.

Right?

So if this hits VA buyers, what could that potentially look like? What's your brain?

I'm just really curious to see where everything goes in the world of VA. There's VA allowables and non allowables. And so right now, VA does not allow for the veteran to pay for the buyer's agent's commission.

Oh, I didn't know that was, like, clear.

Yeah, it's very clear. Black and white or any other fees like that where it's similar to a commission. I'm pretty sure. Let me double check and I'll get back, but I'm pretty sure that it doesn't allow for that. So now if the NAR lawsuit goes, and let's say now, the buyers have to pay their own agents commission, and then also the sellers pay the sellers. The sellers are only responsible for this listing agent, then a lot of VA buyers are going to have to go into these transactions unrepresented, or they have to just give up buying a home. And I think that just opens up a lot of room and space for misuse, our soldiers being taken advantage of. And so I don't know if there's a better solution or an alternative solution.

I'm not that smart, but I don't know. Yeah, that's a really good question, and I guess we'll just have to see. I think litigation like this probably takes years for it to settle or anything.

It's been ongoing four years. Yeah.

So I don't think there's going to be any change in the near future, but it's still something to have in the back of your mind.

Yeah. And I think remembering, too, that the veteran population is a vulnerable one, and a lot of the time, they do get, not a lot, but they can tend to be taken advantage of because they have that veteran name associated with them. So that's part of our responsibility as professionals to always have their best interests and to tell them, first off, like, hey, you're more than welcome to go shop this person, you're more than welcome to work with XYZ. However, just know that we are truly advisors, and I'm never going to tell you, have to do anything. And so just reminding them that if that comes up and they don't have to pay a buyer's agent's commission leaves you up for a lot of gray space and fighting for the cheapest dollar, which doesn't serve anyone. So that's definitely something we're going to look out for. And just, I think, again, educate, educate, educate. Someone can make VA content for days and never run out of content to make.

So, again, there's such a big opportunity to expand your voice in your neighborhood. That'd be really good. Anything I missed about VA loans that you want to drop. We didn't talk about mortgage versus, or the broker versus retail.

Yeah, we can talk about that. But one thing I would just want to add about. Educate, educate, educate. Is also if you're a buyer, then you definitely want to make sure and do your research on your agent and your lender or your broker, whoever it is, to just make sure that they know what they're doing. Right. A lot of the times, like you said, they might have veteran or some sort of name in their company that makes it seem like they're professionals or they're experts. But some of the questions that you might want to ask is, how many VA loans have you done this last year? What is your VA volume? Like X, Y and Z? And there's different questions that you can ask to just kind of interview them. Also, another great resource that I think buyers and even agents and real estate professionals can kind of link into or look into is an organization called vetted VA.

And so I just recently learned of them through one of my team leads, and they vet real estate professionals, whether you're a lender or an agent, to make sure that your knowledge on the VA is on point.

Cool.

Yeah. And there is a cost for the professional to be a part of the organization, but that's to have skin in the game to run admin costs and things like that. But it's become a really good community that maybe one of the questions that you ask is, do you know vetted VA? And are you part of vetted VA? But, yeah, definitely Google vetted VA. They're a really great organization.

Cool. Yeah. I knew you guys were plugged in, but I haven't even thought to do it as an agent.

Yeah, but it's for both for agents and lenders.

Okay. Amazing. I think 90% of my business is VA related. Like 100%. So that's totally it. Okay. But with your success, you've decided to recently go mortgage broker. So for the agent who isn't really caught on yet, and I feel like this is kind of a transition from similar worlds with agents going to cloud based brokerages, now all these lenders are going to the broker world.

What does that mean?

Man, this is going to be another episode, but give you the five minute version. Yeah. In a nutshell, I've had such a great experience the last two and a half years working in retail, learning the basic skills of building a loan. It's been such an amazing period of my life. But as I'm looking for the next step, the next step in my career, the real reason is that I was getting beat up by brokers left and right. The rates were just lower competition and there was nothing that I could do about it. And it really made me think like, I'm here to serve the veterans, I'm here to serve first time home buyers, and I'm trying to get them the best deal possible with anything creative that I can do. But if after all my effort, I still can't offer them the best deal, then they deserve to go with someone else and I need to do something different.

And that's what really prompted me to explore my options. And here, especially locally in Hawaii, the VA community is pretty, actually tight and very small. And so, you know, who's doing well, who's not doing well, you know, who's really hustling, who's not. And so I went and looked at our top kind of producers and leaders and tried to identify who's doing the right kind of business that I want to do. And I identified someone and I asked you to set up a lunch. And then we had a chat and we jived. And so I made the transition about a week and a half ago. And I'm still learning a lot of the broker channel because now a lot of it is more, when you have more freedom, you have more responsibility.

Right. So now I'm not only quoting one type of product for VA, but I have twelve different lenders or banks that I can go to and shop around. And I have to know what each bank is going to be strong for. And that's kind of prompting me to level up. Right. As a loan officer is that I need to know the particular characteristics of not only my client, but of the bank and find them the right perfect marriage so that this loan beautifully works. So it's kicking my butt, to be honest, learning a lot of new things. It's kicking my butt, but that's what I wanted for the next step of my career.

Cool.

So I'm super excited.

Yeah. And then just to reverse a little bit. So regular retail versus broker is retail. You are like under one bank essentially, right? How does that.

Yeah, so you can work for a bank, bank like our major banks, or there's mortgage banks where it's the major companies that you see on ads and stuff like that. So those are called retail lenders. And a broker is literally you can.

Shop all the banks?

Yeah, exactly. They can go to any single bank. Typically they can't really shop at the mortgage banks that are customer facing retail. Some of them have a wholesale channel that the brokers can go to, but the brokers have access to the wholesale rates, which is going to be lower than what the retail rates are. It's a basic commerce concept, right? Yeah. So brokers can shop around and then obviously if you need a certain strength from a certain bank, then you gravitate towards one bank over the other and you can pick and choose and offer the options and the flexibility. And so I think I'm being called to be more of an advisor role than a loan officer per se. So moving from storyteller to story advisor.

Love that. I love it. I wake up every day, I'm super excited about what I do. It puts the pep in my step. And the best thing is I just get to go out and talk story like today at the Tesla service Center and just talk story and listen to what they have to say. And then boom, there was an opportunity. And it really just starts from there.

Yeah. And I think just with the shifting landscape of loans in general as agents, we also need to be aware we can't just be under a rock working with the same people forever. We start to notice like, hey, we are consistently being beat out by so and so. Maybe I need to go talk to that person and see what it is they're doing differently. But I know, like Veterans United is a big one, right? I'm just going to say that we hear it all the time. All the time. You search veteran loan, Va loan, it's number one on Google. Right.

And so knowing it might not always be in their best interest to go with that bank, and they should do their due diligence to interview other lenders just to see, is this the best experience I'm going to get beyond just the numbers, but it's also the whole communication side of it. Right. Because that can make a break a deal. So we always share that story, but I'm going to wrap that up here. And I always end every episode with a rapid fire. So this is the fun part. Okay, what's your go to Starbucks order?

Okay. Ice chicken, espresso, venti size, add an extra shot, no, classic. And five pumps of sugar free vanilla.

Woo. That's a mouthful.

It is, yeah, but it's already saved. So I just one click and then I order.

That's good. What do you make for dinner and last minute? When you're like in a bind, but you have to cook?

Oh man. What do I make for dinner last minute in a bind? I usually have rice heated up. So rice and seaweed and kimchi, almost vegetarian.

Yeah.

Almost. That's like my korean childhood meal. So it's like kimchi, seaweed and some sort of soup. Yeah, love it.

Okay, cool. Favorite department of target. And your favorite designer there?

My favorite department of target, probably. I like where they have all the baskets and organizing things. And I think it's called brightside now. Right? The target brand?

I think so, yeah.

I think they rebranded brightside, but I like buying these little boxes to put things into which I end up not ever using. So I just have all these random organization boxes.

You need to talk to Megan, my organizer.

I know.

Okay, good. Next question. Name a book or a podcast you'd recommend to the show audience. And why that book?

So my favorite book of all time is the go giver. And the go giver is just a really simple allegory of five principles. It talks about authenticity, about the giving, and it just really resonates with the type of business philosophy that I want to have. I've hustled and I've stepped on other people's backs before, but that's not, like, the life that I want to live. And so the goal giver really encapsulates everything. And I like it because it allows me to go back and remind myself time to time of, like, hey, this is my values.

No, that's really good. And it's totally what we do, service based business. We give, give, then we, like, jab, jab, jabber, hook. Yep. Okay. TikTok or Instagram?

TikTok.

Okay. And then where do people find you on the Internet? Where do you live?

Yeah, absolutely. So my YouTube channel right now is YouTube atmortgagemillennial. So that's two L's, two N's. Also on Instagram, mortgage, millennial, underscore, and TikTok. Mortgage, millennial, underscore. I'm going to start posting a lot of videos, come in the next few weeks, so keep posted on that. And then if not, you can go mortgagemillennial.com. Find my phone number, you can give me a call.